49 thoughts on “September 24, 2015

  1. I hear the rumble of approaching comment wars over whether or not Amber should show proper gratitude when strangers heckle her…

    These dudes should head over to Starbucks and hit on Courtney. She’d probably consider it her rightful due.

  2. I think the price of beauty should either be nervous male stuttering or cool polite idle conversation personally. Unfortunately I tend to be the former or if that isn’t the case it isn’t to hook up rather it’s talking to a friend. 8|

  3. I think this shows the difference between generations. Young women now feel as if the normal social order should change overnight to placate them. Sadly, it won’t…it can’t.

    I do totally agree that those guys are idiots, but that’s life. If you’re attractive, you’ll get cat-called, and when you’re 65 and look like Bea Arthur, you’ll be recounting those days when you were whistled at with fond remembrance, mark my words. That old lady next to her remembered.

    That being said, back when I was in my first retail job (mid 90’s or so) a male co-worker who was fairly good looking used to get grabbed by women, especially teenage girls. I remember one instance when a young woman walked by him and grabbed his junk. me and 2 other employees in the aisle saw this and laughed our butts off.

    It goes both ways.

    • No, but if we never start calling upon it to change, it never will change.

      I’m not a young woman any more, but I didn’t like it when I was catcalled, and I’ll never lament it that I don’t get catcalled any more.

      On the contrary, I think one advantage of getting older is that at least I no longer have to put up with that s**t and smile.

      And just because I did have to, I see no reason for my daughters and granddaughters to have to as well.

      I don’t believe any woman has ever found it complimentary; it isn’t and never has been done to please us. We’ve just been told we ought to and that we can’t stop it.

      And even if women in the past did appreciate it, that doesn’t mean we have to as well. I don’t know a single young woman who does, and that means it’s not okay to do it.

      And anyone who does it anyway has to be told it’s not okay, every time, till they get it through their heads that it really isn’t.

      • And the same goes for men who get grabbed by girls. That’s not okay either. You can bet he didn’t like it, and since he didn’t, it shouldn’t have been regarded as all right.

    • What happened to your male coworker was sexual assault, plain and simple. It was not right of that woman to grab him, any more than it would be right of some guy to grab a woman’s body. It does go both ways, and it’s wrong both ways.

    • For those wondering what a woman who suddenly escapes catcalling and other negative male attention feels:

      vagabondish.com/female-foreign-japan/

      It describes a role reversal she experience when travelling.
      “…even construction workers, who could usually be counted on for a leer, regarded me with bored, blank expressions….”

      While the post is old I found it a very interesting read into both a woman’s experience and her feelings.

    • Overnight? who’s talking about overnight here? You sound like it shouldn’t change since “it has always been like this” And placate? get real! It’s a guy’s privilege to catcall and he shouldn’t have to stop it to placate some young woman!

      Then again, the reverse is no better. Happens way less but no better.

      • I’ve read the article and it was interesting, but in no way it justifies catcalling and rude comments! I lead a life where most men don’t look at me, and I live in a western country and am a western woman… I’m just shy and introverted. That doesn’t mean I jump with joy when I get the occasional catcall or insult in the street… Far from it.

  4. I hated it when I got cat called as a young woman. I didn’t dress in a way that provoked it and I got far more disgusting sexual cat calls than this. You are not asking for it simply by walking down the street. It’s sexist and disgusting!

    • It absolutely is. Men, if you do this to women, especially women in no position to tell you to stop it (working in customer service, for example), you are not being clever, funny or charming. You are being a scumbag. Stop it.

      • No, just because they work in customer service does not mean they’re not in a position to tell the person to stop it. Don’t try to get on your high horse, attempt to lecture the opposite sex, then make a false assumption while doing so. I’m sure as hell not going to let someone like you tell me how to treat women, you can’t even understand the basic concept of no means no.

        • Really? If you get pervy with a female cashier, she tells you off and you go lying to her manager about how “rude” she was, she’s the one getting in trouble. All too frequently customer service workers are NOT in a position to tell nasty people to stop being nasty. If you can’t act like a decent human being, then yes, someone does need to tell you how.

  5. It’s funny how society has such double standards with lazer-like focus on only a few social concerns, and total ignorance of others. I was taught a very long time ago that appreciation of a person begins with respect. Yet today, it’s all about what gets you on CNN.

  6. Obviously the guy who got grabbed has a reason to be upset and could probably have whoever did it could be arrested for assault. That said I expect that kind of thing is pretty rare compared to the catcalls/wolf whistles women experience. If any men or for that matter women on here do it, STOP!!!! It’s not appreciated.

  7. Ok, I’ll speak for the silent majority here… You know, those of us who are plain-janes and never get catcalled. Do we think catcalling is childish and rude? Yes. Would we want to be catcalled if given the option? No. But think about this…

    A catcall communicates 2 things. #1 The rudeness of the caller, and #2 the perceived beauty of the callee. The two have nothing to do with each other. One cannot affect the other. A man’s rudeness will not diminish or increase a woman’s beauty. And a woman’s beauty will not diminish or increase the the classiness of a man’s character.

    It is possible to be offended at #1 and be flattered by #2 since they have nothing to do with each other.

    It’s hard for us plain-janes to sympathize with the plight of catcalled women. Because all we really hear you communicating is that there are some jerks who reveal their childish characters in front of you. Oh—and you’re gorgeous. It’s the equivalent of complaining about seeing someone throw a temper-tantrum at an A-lister’s Oscar party. Really? You’re lucky enough to be at an exclusive fancy Oscar party (i.e. you’re lucky enough to be drop-dead gorgeous) and you want to rub it in my face by complaining that you witnessed the shortcomings of someone else’s character while you were there? Puh-leeze. If we all were attending that A-lister’s party then we’d commiserate with you. But since not all of us were invited, please keep your gorgeous-person problems to yourself out of respect for us plain-janes.

    • That was humbling TrueBlue.
      As I’ve gotten older (and hopefully wiser) I’ve made it a point to NOT compliment or acknowledge the beauty of those in the “drop-dead gorgeous” category. There are enough others doing it already…

    • Trueblue, I was pondering the same thing. My feminist side was pissed at the guys for being asses and the older woman for allowing that behaviour to still be okay. My plain jane side was “what the hell, I’ll never have that problem.”

      It’s difficult for not-gorgeous women to fight the patriarchy because our place in it is practically non-existent. Because we don’t have value in that hierarchy, we don’t have a voice. However, we still have a responsibility to fight for the world we want. I just wish the path was a little clearer…

      • “My feminist side was pissed at the guys for being asses and the older woman for allowing that behaviour to still be okay.”

        The same older women who were actual feminists and opened doors for new-age tumblr feminists like yourself?

        • One, I wouldn’t consider the older woman in the strip a feminist. And two, ‘The same older women who were actual feminists and opened doors for new-age tumblr feminists like yourself?’ WTF? What’s tumblr? What do you know about me? Nothing. I have nothing but respect for all the women who came before me and opened doors and paved ways for me and every other woman. We wouldn’t be where we are today without their hard work and sacrifice and I know that so maybe do a little checking before making assumptions, okay?

    • I’m part of the silent majority, but you do not speak for me. I don’t care if it is a man or a woman who does the cat-calling, or who is the recipient. It isn’t okay. It isn’t funny or endearing. It’s harassment.

      And while you are right, beauty is not effected by the catcall, that does not mean that a beautiful person cannot complain. They were harassed, and oftentimes, their complaint has nothing to do with self-praise. They were offended and remarking on it. So to put down someone’s complaint just because they are good looking is ridiculous. And it makes you sound as shallow as the idiots doing the catcalling.

      • I didn’t say they couldn’t complain. I just implied that they should be careful who they complain around. Was the remark harassment? Yes, and it’s uncalled for. Are you reminding me of my ugliness by coming to me with your unique problem? Yes, perhaps. And it stings a little more than you think. If I ask you why you’re upset, you can be honest. Solicited honesty is better than unsolicited in this case. But I’ll still have a tough time being reminded that I’m not pretty. Harassment is worse than being reminded you’re not pretty, of course… But if you want to avoid hurting MORE feelings besides your own, consider the target of your sympathy-seeking endeavor. If I’m an ugly human-resources director and you’re making a complaint about a fellow co-worker, by all means, please voice the problem. It needs to be dealt with.

        • In this case, Amber just *sighed*, and the customer commented to her with the question, first.
          She didn’t bring it up to the older woman.
          I was the plainer friend, back when I was younger. When I was walking alone, I would get comments, just being female. If a prettier girl was around, I was ignored, which was fine for me. The comments were never ok, though.

      • Agreed! Just being a young woman is enough. If you don’t look *enough* like their ideal, the guys in question will gladly heckle you for that, too. Whatever you look like, some guy you don’t know will think it’s his right to pronounce on it.

      • I’ve lived many places across the U.S…. Small towns, large cities… And I’ve never had anyone catcall me that I can remember. I have heard my pretty friend get catcalled though, so I know it’s not just my location.

    • Yeah, just like people who complain about their houses getting robbed, I mean wow, you have a house that you own and things worth stealing?! You shouldn’t expect sympathy from that, I mean really it’s just a form of boasting. Or complaining when someone they care about dies, I mean you’re really just bragging that you were around someone that made you feel loved and valued and not everyone gets that, just more boasting. Ok yes, laying it on a tad thick here but seriously, the idea that in any way it’s acceptable for a woman to get catcalled or that she should somehow not feel that she should complain is frankly wrong

      • I get that you’re laying it on thick for the sake of making a point. Yet I think you just demonstrated MY point. Yes, it’s wrong to catcall anyone and women have a right to not like it and voice their concern. But if they have compassion themselves they will be cautious who they complain to. If your house was robbed, who’s the first person you go to complain to? Your homeless friend? If you do, you’d better be sure that while they do legitimately feel sorry for you, you can bet they’re biting their tongue to not say “at least you have a house. I’d love to have a house even if it meant risking getting robbed now and then.”

        Same thing with the death of a loved one. If your mom passes away, who do you go cry on the shoulder of? Your friend that grew up in foster care without EVER having the love of a mother? If she’s your good friend she’ll listen to you and let you cry on her shoulder… But do you really think she isn’t reminded about her entire motherless life and what your crying about losing is something she’ll never ever have?

        That said, homeless people and orphans can sympathize even if they can’t empathize in those cases. But that doesn’t mean they won’t feel a different sort of pain themselves while you talk about YOUR pain.

        All I’m saying is that it’s wise to be careful who you complain to, because there is more pain to be had, albeit of a different nature. Both forms of pain are real, and can be differing degrees of tolerability… Being wronged doesn’t negate the risk of being inconsiderate on a totally different level.

    • “Ok, I’ll speak for the silent majority here… You know, those of us who are plain-janes and never get catcalled.”
      You live in a wonderful place. Here a recent poll found 100% women have been harassed at least once on public transportation http://www.ladepeche.fr/article/2015/04/16/2088540-100-femmes-ont-deja-ete-harcelees-transports-parisiens.html
      “Do we think catcalling is childish and rude? Yes.” No, I wonder “what kind of jerk it is ? Only the stupid space-invading one or a dangerous one ?” Have you read the schrodinger rapist ? it explains it quite well http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/

      “A catcall communicates 2 things. #1 The rudeness of the caller, and #2 the perceived beauty of the callee.”
      Not really. 1) A catcall not recived with fawning is followed by “who do you think you are, you fat cow/ugly bitch/etc”. So he said I was beautiful when he though he could get laid and say I am ugly when he has no hope, at what time is he sincere ? 2) Once a guy dogged me for half an hour explaining I was fat and ugly, but with a diet and make up he would bed me and since he was surely the only one I was lucky and should be grateful…
      Go to http://www.ihollaback.org/ to get a larger sample of real life cases…

      “It’s hard for us plain-janes to sympathize with the plight of catcalled women. ” About as difficult as compassion for rape victime when one is single, because they at least get laid ? It is just ridiculous. Catcalling has nothing to do with beauty, ( feeling down ou being tired is enough, it is juste more frequent when you are thin/young/pretty )

      “Oh—and you’re gorgeous. ” More you are female+alive+human (not necessarily adult, alas) and with some of them I am not even sur the last two criterias are really

    • “A catcall communicates 2 things. #1 The rudeness of the caller, and #2 the perceived beauty of the callee. ”

      Wrong. A catcall has nothing to do with the he perceived beauty of the person being harassed. A catcall is a power play.

      Frankly, you sound like a jerk.

      • Woah, the level of pettiness in trueblue’s comment is frankly worrying. And I’m a plain Jane and I was catcalled too, so don’t speak for me and I sure as hell can empathise with other women’s plights.

  8. Eh, this problem will correct itself sooner or later, and not for the better.

    Give feminism another generation, two tops, and there won’t be ANY women good-looking and feminine enough for guys to WANT to cat call.

    We’ll have a world of nothing but Men and Men With Breasts.

    • If being perceived as a man with breasts will mean I’m treated with respect and courtesy when being perceived as a woman wouldn’t, I’m all for it. Sign me up as a man with breasts right now.

      Of course, I’d rather be perceived as a woman *and* be treated with respect and courtesy. But what you’re telling me is that they don’t come packaged that way.

    • Yeah GOD FORBID that women lose their ONE valuable asset, once they lose their attractiveness they lost the one thing that made them have worth. Might as well have no women if they’re not pretty!!

  9. Why is that every time you point out something like this, someone has to chime in with, “Yeah, but…!”

    This is harassment. Period. It would still be harassment even if it only happened to women. Pointing out that it sometimes happens to men does not give the complaint more (or less) legitimacy. It does not become less of a complaint because it only happens to some women. Is rape not a big problem because not every woman is raped? Is armed robbery not a big problem because it only happens to some people?

    Let’s stop trying to rationalize this nonsense and recognize it for what it is: Harassment. And let’s stop telling women that it “shouldn’t bother them” or they can’t stop it, and start teaching our sons not to do it. Because, people, the problem is not with the women who don’t like it. The problem is with the men who do it. And they don’t do it because they sincerely want to compliment a woman. They do it because they KNOW it makes women uncomfortable and it gives them a sense of power.

    • “The problem is with the men who do it. And they don’t do it because they sincerely want to compliment a woman. They do it because they KNOW it makes women uncomfortable and it gives them a sense of power.”

      QFT. It is not a compliment to be catcalled, or spoken to as if he’s soliciting a prostitute. It’s most definitely not a compliment to be grabbed or rubbed against inappropriately. It’s a power trip by a jerk harassing someone he thinks is too polite to “make a scene” or otherwise won’t fight back.

  10. Gee, this used to be such a fun strip to comment on.

    OK, so some men (and some women) engage in harassment. So, what do you do about it? Sure, you can make it your mission to rectify this, but trust me when I say the supply of bad manners is unlimited.

    • If a person is rude to you, you don’t resign yourself to it on the grounds that lots of people are rude, to lots of people.

      You tell the rude person that you personally are not prepared to be treated rudely by him or her personally.

      You don’t stop rude treatment by going up against All Rude Treatment Everywhere.

      You stop it by making sure that any specific person who is rude to you won’t choose to be rude to you again.

      And if enough people do that enough of the time, rudeness overall will drop.

      • How exactly do you propose to make that individual not be rude to you again? You could threaten them, that would make you worse than them. You could politely tell them off, they would laugh at you. So what options do you have? How exactly do you make that random stranger you are probably never going to see again not be rude to you anymore? You forget it, and move on from it. It isn’t rocket science. You can not control people at all, you can request, but if they are already rude then they are not gonna listen.

  11. For those wondering what a woman who suddenly escapes catcalling and other negative male attention feels:

    vagabondish.com/female-foreign-japan/

    It describes a role reversal she experience when travelling.
    “…even construction workers, who could usually be counted on for a leer, regarded me with bored, blank expressions….”

    While the post is old I found it a very interesting read into both a woman’s experience and her feelings.

    • She was desperate for a date, not to be catcalled/stalked on the street/insulted. Do you people seriously equate catcalling to wanting to score a date? Lol, there’s no justification for the people who grope/insult other people around.

  12. Oh christ, here we go. I saw some meninist dudebro tears, I saw some body shaming, and some blatant idiocy.

    Just gonna leave this here.

    #yesallwomen

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